Keith Cowing: 0:00

In this episode I go deep with Siwat Siengsanaoh, co-founder of Recoup, a beverage company that produces healthy and delicious ginger-based beverages. Siwat and I sat down live in Lower Manhattan, near the Freedom Tower, to discuss his incredible journey from childhood battles to his entrepreneurial spirit and, ultimately, the success in his current role. Let's jump right into the conversation. Take me to the beginnings of Recoup. How did this start?

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 0:27

Sure. So Recoup has always been a concept that's always been in the back of my mind and it spawns from my childhood healthcare experiences. I spent the first two years of my life in a hospital. By the time I was 12, I had 10 major surgeries, one of them being open heart. A lot of my issues were mostly absorption issues, digestive issues, and it was really my mom's ginger teas, ginger tonics that helped me after surgery and after kind of these longer recovery periods that I would have, and so I've always kept that in my mind, never really understood what I was drinking, but I knew it had ginger in it, if that makes any sense. When I was a kid, fast forward, I thought I was going to go to med school, ended up finishing undergrad, went and applied to a master's program for physiology, then worked at the hospital I grew up in while I was a kid.

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 1:13

I went back to work there as a physiologist, so I was working full-time and going to grad school part-time. So I was working with kids with heart and lungs disease. So it was slightly similar in terms of they had monthly checkups where they would come into the see the doctor every month. They'd have a routine blood test, a bunch of different tests and then those tests, based on kind of the results, we would work with doctors to see if they need to increase their medicine or decrease their medicine. So that's what I was doing and while I was working there as a physiologist, I combed through medical research and found that ginger has been known to help with gut health, digestion, muscle soreness, aches and pains, all these different things which I was kind of like, oh, that makes sense. Kind of thought back to what my mom was thinking and she had no access to any of those research papers, but it made sense. So I kept that in a book of ideas that I've always had. I have this list of ideas that I've always had and kind of different problems and my imaginary way of solving these problems, at least on paper.

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 2:06

And I move up into management and healthcare and I get pulled into different committees patient safety, revenue and all these other things and started to notice at these committees you either had a public health degree or an MBA and I was probably one of the youngest kids at the time I think I was like 31 at the time and I realized, okay, I need to figure out what, at least in another advanced degrees At the time. What was going on with Cornell, new York City, Bloomberg's innovation, entrepreneurship. I wanted to apply to business school and Cornell was the only one that I thought was the best fit for me. All the other business schools were kind of more finance oriented and I just didn't want to focus on that. So I applied to Cornell's executive MBA program. I got in and the last semester of Cornell was an innovation semester and you put your team together, you come up with an idea and I absolutely fell in love with that.

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 2:56

I've always been torn between two different careers. One is starting something and the other one is this healthcare space, this space of like, being healthy and how, what. I've gone through in my life. So I've always been torn in that and I worked in healthcare. But then my other nine to five is I started a t-shirt company, I started a magazine, I started a music discovery app back in the day all these different things that I've always been pulled to. So I felt like going to Cornell with the innovation and just focusing on that. If I graduated I'd figure out where I could go and it was more towards my interest.

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 3:28

So that's the original story of Recoup. The simple basic idea was I ended up working for a digital healthcare startup accelerator where the two founders invested $10K in 10 companies and they put them through what must have been like a two to three month kind of accelerator where they refine their idea pitch and all that stuff. And then during the off hours I would always pick the founder's brain about different ideas and I told them about Recoup. The idea was just the beverage at the time and bounced it back and forth and yeah, basically told me it might be time to throw your hat in the ring. And so, yes, I did, and the simple way to start that company was I just bought a juicer, a simple Omega juicer and started buying fruits at a farmer's market and vegetables and just juicing

Keith Cowing: 4:15

This was just for you, or did you have a vision of this becoming a business?

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 4:19

It was a vision of becoming a business, but the original concept was just to buy something and create a product. I've learned with different companies that I've started in the past that the more you rely on other people to create something, the more it slows you down. So if you can take all the issues and all the problems and engulf them yourself and create the product on your own, whatever that is, you're in at advantage because you can move faster than relying on an engineer to build it, relying on the designer to design your website, all these different things. If you can just take it on your own and build it, at least it doesn't have to be pretty, it doesn't have to be nice. Just build it and start talking to your customers about it, or your potential customers, and getting feedback and then iterating and moving fast.

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 4:59

The progress, I think mentally, also helps. You believe that you're onto something. As you start to kind of pivot and iterate, it's good, positive feedback for you rather than relying on someone. And then, as you start to do it, you start to learn more and more and the things that you learn become exciting. At least I think so.

Keith Cowing: 5:17

What was the first one you sold?

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 5:19

First juice that we sold?.

Keith Cowing: 5:23

Yeah, was this a lemonade stand, or did you get a deal at a store? What did that look like?

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 5:25

So it was. I remember it's exactly the way it was. We I invited three groups of 15 to 20 people to come and taste our beverage. We had 20 flavors lined up. We had a survey for them to fill out and they filled out the survey on what their favorite ones were. And after that week of of everybody filling it out, I got a text from a friend saying hey, I really liked your beverage, I just want to buy it. Can you just make this flavor for me? So I was like sure, I didn't even have a price at that time yet. So I asked him what would you pay for per bottle? And he threw out a number and I think it was like five or six dollars for an eight ounce bottle, and so we built A good friend.

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 6:03

Yeah, exactly, and we made at the time I six bottles for him and he paid us and it was a. Venmo. It was like the first sale, it was amazing.

Keith Cowing: 6:15

That's awesome. Now let's fast forward a little bit. You've got these beautiful cans. I'm looking at one right now You're selling. It's going to be at Wegman soon. Like everything's changed, but one of the things. I'm not a beverage expert by any means, but it fascinates me that you have to understand the business side of production and distribution and pricing. There's also the craft side of designing a recipe that's delicious, and then there's the art side of building a brand that resonates with people. I love to hear on the brand side Do beverages mean something to people in general, and I think, even more today than ever? What's your vision for the brand of Recoup? What do you want people to feel when they see brand of Recoup? What do you want people to feel when they see it in the store? What do you want people to feel when they drink it? How do they identify with it?

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 6:59

I always kind of go back to our mission, which is to champion resilience for people and planet through plant-powered, modern remedies, and so we always want people to recognize that Recoup is a brand that will provide you with clean ingredients. For us, right now, it's specifically no added sugar, no added sweeteners, nothing artificial very clean. The beverage that we provide, or the brand that we're looking to do, is to help people. Whether it's you have gut issues, whether you are just looking for a pick-me-up throughout the day After a workout, our beverage provides hydration, and the ginger has just been known to help with so many different things. So that's kind of the overall vision is to just help people recoup, and recoup can mean a bunch of different things. You don't necessarily have to be sick. You just maybe need to pick me up in the middle of the day, or maybe you want something that'll just give you a jump start before your presentation or your big meeting. Ginger's been known to do all of that.

Keith Cowing: 7:54

I've been drinking them in the evening. On the weekend I might love a glass of wine or a cocktail. For health reasons I don't want to do that every day and so having a routine where it feels like something special, it's a bit of a process. It's delicious. I've been really enjoying it for that. I love ginger because I love flavor and it's hard to get a lot of flavor without calories or something else going on, something artificial or something high calorie, and ginger is one of those things. It's almost a secret weapon. But I love ginger. Not everybody does. It's polarizing. I'm sure that's come up in how you were planning this. How did you think about whether ginger was the right approach where not everybody likes it?

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 8:36

Yeah, Ginger was an ingredient that was such a big part of my life, so then it was just. I knew I needed to incorporate it in this beverage and I wasn't going to remove it. It was just a matter of getting the right amount of ginger when we first started off, going back to 20 different flavors and I was making this myself.

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 8:55

It was extremely strong. I do recall to this day I had a dear friend of mine who came and tasted it and he was nearly crying tasting these and afterwards I was like are you okay? And he's like I actually don't like ginger. I was like, well, if you didn't like ginger, you didn't have to taste these.

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 9:11

He's like doing this because, like I want to support you and everything that you do, but it was, I felt really bad. But ginger is an ingredient and my co-founder and I agree with this and we'll attest to this based on all the customer development that we've done is the ingredient that people know like, understand the taste of, so there's not a lot of new education that you need to provide around ginger. It's not like all these new ingredients coming in. I know mushrooms are really big now. Then people are really getting educated to the benefits of mushrooms and beverage and food and all these things.

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 9:42

But ginger is something that's been around for a while and people understand and know what it tastes like. It's just getting the right pungency, if that makes any sense for people to really enjoy. And in the beginning I would say it was very strong and we've gotten to a point now where you taste the ginger. It's not overwhelming. Our goal has always been to be in between that close your nose, close your eyes, ginger shot and more ginger than a ginger ale. So yeah, right in between.

Keith Cowing: 10:12

Now let's talk a little bit about the business and your leadership role, growing the company here. Where do you want to take this and how do you plan to differentiate in a world that's pretty competitive?

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 10:22

Absolutely. Where do we want to take this? We want to grow this brand with some product line extensions. Our sparkling line is new. We just launched, we're excited about it.

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 10:30

We're looking for other ways to keep people hydrated, with tree water as well as ginger, and then, ultimately, I believe the goal would be for an acquisition, because these beverage companies are the larger ones, are so big and it's just hard to compete. I think our goal would be ultimately an acquisition. In regards to how we want to do that, we are very focused on regional and staying within the natural chain and we hope that we can learn a lot working with regional natural chains, understanding working with local distributors, working with distributors, understanding the promotions, the trade spend, the marketing that's involved in all of that, collecting that data, building a story around that and then going to other regions for the plug and play. That is our goal and that's how we would like to grow From a branding standpoint. My co-founder, susan, handles a lot of that and she's great at it. She has the experience. It's really developing a community around our brand, around what our mission is, educating people around that and really fostering back and forth communication on what we can improve, what they like are we filling the needs that they want?

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 11:36

But ultimately our beverage focuses on cleaning greens no stevia, no added sweetener. We use a local. When I say local, it's a tree water which is a maple water. Maple water has just as much electrolytes as coconut water, half of the sugar. We get our maple water from upstate New York and Vermont. Coconut water is usually from Brazil, usually from the Philippines or Thailand, and we didn't want to tree water that we would have to import in and all that type stuff. So we kept it very local.

Keith Cowing: 12:04

I grew up in New Hampshire. I'm a big maple syrup fan. I'd honestly never heard of maple water, but it sounds amazing and it sure tastes delicious, so that's really interesting. Why aren't other people using that? I don't see it.

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 12:15

Yeah, there was a big boom to maple water, probably pre-pandemic. I personally think that a lot of the maple water that is out there just didn't have enough variety. So I think what happened was coconut water just surpassed it very quickly and when it came to other plant-based waters, people just came in and focused more on coconut water. We provide a tree water for hydration, but our functional ingredient is really the ginger and the prebiotic that we use.

Keith Cowing: 12:43

What are your business goals for the year?

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 12:45

For the year. We'd love to land a couple more regional accounts. We have Wegmans. We'd love to land a Whole Foods. We would love to land a Sprouts at a local region. My co-founder, susan's on the West Coast, so we will be in Erewhon, we will be in Jimbo's and we hope to land a Mother's over there and really just stay regional and grow there and get the data, build that story. So those are at the end of the year. That's what we would like to do.

Keith Cowing: 13:10

A lot to do for a small team. Yes, walk me through that. How do you split responsibilities? How do you hold each other accountable?

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 13:17

Yeah, so we operate really lean. Right now it's Susan and I and Susan is on the West coast and I'm on the East coast and we split our responsibilities in that the sales portion of our responsibilities we handle our own coasts East coast and West coast. Susan handles West, I handle the East. Susan handles all the marketing and branding and social media and development on that on across Recoup. I handle production, supply chain, a lot of the day-to-day operation stuff.

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 13:45

We do weekly check-ins but our Monday meetings are usually the longest where we touch base on what we plan on doing for the rest of the week. Wednesday is usually a half an hour brief kind of update, just any roadblocks that we hit and how we can help out, and Friday is usually either a quick call or an email of an update on what we were able to accomplish and what kind of is left in limbo for next week. How often do you meet in person? That's a great question. So we try and do meetings once or twice a quarter in person. Susan used to be on the East Coast. We are actually neighbors, believe it or not. We lived a block away from each other and we didn't know it until we were introduced by a mutual friend from business school and then, once we found that out, we were actually neighbors. But during COVID her and her then boyfriend, now fiance, now husband, did a road trip to California. He has family over there and during that road trip he proposed and they got married and they're out West now.

Keith Cowing: 14:38

Got it. So in this hybrid world that we're all still trying to figure out, people forget how much change you've been through over the last four or five years. What recommendations do you have for teams that are building companies? They're remote, trying to maintain that relationship, spend some in-person time but be really efficient at the same time.

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 14:56

I think Susan and I we do those check-ins, those weekly check-ins. We do it two to three times a week. But also we try in a lot sometime where it's not just work, where we just catch up on life in general. We dedicate some time to that, where we will just make a phone call and not talk about recoup, which is hard for me. But yeah, we just talk about other things how life is in general. She's out there, the weather is always nicer than it is here out in California, so I always ask about the weather, what she has planned to do, what vacation she's looking to take and things like that.

Keith Cowing: 15:34

Yeah, During your career. Walk me through some pivotal moments that have impacted how you approach leadership.

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 15:40

It would go all the way back to when I was working in the hospital. I had a boss who was so instrumental in the growth in my growth and really has been a role model for me going forward. He was my boss. His name was Robert Garifano, Dr Robert Garifano, and he was just amazing. I learned through him what it was like to just be a team player, to stick up for one another, to help each other out. There was nothing that we couldn't do. There was no challenge I felt like we couldn't tackle. We all helped one another out, whether someone had to leave the other one filled in all these different things. Whatever challenges we faced, we always felt like we could get through it together, which is really important when you're working with kids, with heart and lung disease, and certain things don't necessarily go your way. But, as his team environment, this trust and the way he instilled confidence and belief in all of us was something that I'll never forget.

Keith Cowing: 16:38

Any specific things that he did that our listeners can take away as tactics they can use with their teams.

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 16:45

Yeah, he built the pediatric physiology department at the hospital. I was working from the ground up and he had all the experience. He knew it front and back and so when I came in as a new employee, he basically said that within three to four months you'll be able to do all these tests on your own. For the first, this beginning period, I want you to observe, pay attention, ask questions and just really observe, and I think there's so much value in being focused and observing in the beginning when you're learning something new.

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 17:20

Don't jump to conclusions and think you know all the things that you know, and I think that, in general, was something that I've taken with me where, in every industry that I've gone to, even in CPG, where I don't have all the answers, but I've asked questions and I've learned to observe, and he was the first person.

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 17:38

I think that allowed me to be comfortable, and I think this is so important when you're starting something is to be comfortable in the unknown. When you start a company, there's so many different things you don't know because you don't know what you don't know, and just being okay with that as long as you're making steps and progress to figuring out those answers. And once you get those answers, you gain this knowledge and this experience and you also gain a network of people that can help you with that. And just as long as you're moving forward to fixing and understanding the things that you don't know and the challenges that you're facing, it's okay. I think sometimes, especially when you're young, when you don't have all the answers and everything is just so much noise, you get anxious and you get frustrated and all these different things. But it's okay, as long as you're moving to the right direction to get those answers. And he was the first person to instill that and I like that.

Keith Cowing: 18:28

That's an incredible story. How long did you work with him? 11 years, yeah, it was great. So this has been a huge adventure for you. You've worked in publishing. You've worked in healthcare. For you, you've worked in publishing. You've worked in healthcare that led you to sparkling beverages in a can. Now, yes, what have you learned about yourself as a leader during this adventure?

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 18:46

Yeah, I think business school was a huge help for me. At least business school when I left, I realized the type of leader I wanted to be. I think there's not having gone to business school beforehand, or at least before stepping into business school. You read all these books and you hear all these things about how managers need to be and sometimes they make it seem like it needs to be this exact mold. But the reality is, I think, if you understand yourself and you understand how you can inspire and motivate people, that you should strive to be or become that kind of leader. So when I went to business school and I left, I understood that I didn't necessarily have to be like this leader in his autobiography or this leader in his biography. It was very much of like what am I comfortable, how can I inspire, how can I motivate, how can I be firm and fair at the same time, and how would I go about doing that? I think that is important.

Keith Cowing: 19:35

How would you like others to describe you as a leader?

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 19:39

Inspirational, motivational. Someone who stands up and sticks up for his team, always choose to do the right thing and is well-respected among his peers.

Keith Cowing: 19:49

And with all the things that you have on your plate, that's a lot to uphold. That's a really high bar. How do you manage your time? How do you manage your energy?

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 20:05

I wake up six in the morning at least around that time every morning I take 15 to 20 minutes to meditate, to breathe and just kind of figure out what I have going for the day, try and get everything that's super important done before one before lunch I guess and in between that throughout the day I have an 11 o'clock timer that goes off and a two o'clock timer that goes off to take a break, and that break could either be just to breathe or to take a walk the walks I learned when I was in healthcare. I would take these midday walks which was so helpful with a colleague of mine and there would be a 15 minute walk through the hospital. You know, certain hospitals are really big. You'd find different corridors that you would go through and, yeah, just to clear your mind and then come back. That's been really helpful for me.

Keith Cowing: 20:41

How often do you do one versus the other?

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 20:43

I like walks, so it's all weather dependent.

Keith Cowing: 20:46

Okay, because you don't live in California. Yes exactly, and what are your personal goals for the year?

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 20:51

Personal goals is to check in with myself more often.

Keith Cowing: 20:55

Okay, how do you suddenly make that happen?

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 20:57

Have a family structure. That helps me with that. My parents, my wife, helps me with that. They always remind me to ask the simple question of how are we doing? Have you taken some time for yourself? And sometimes-.

Keith Cowing: 21:09

And they mean it.

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 21:10

They do.

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 21:10

Yes, they do.

Keith Cowing: 21:11

Everybody asks how you're doing. Most people don't actually care what you say, it just means hi.

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 21:20

Yes, no, but my wife is great at that. She'll make sure I check in and make sure that everything's okay, and then I take some time and really write things down, or take that longer walk.

Keith Cowing: 21:27

What are your personal non-negotiables? Yeah, if you had this cadence for 10 years and looked back and said you know, I didn't have all of the time that I wanted to do all of the things, but I have no regrets because I was able to hold the core things. Yeah, what are those core things for you?

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 21:41

It's two buckets it's family and friends and then my professional career. Family and friends are. I need to spend time with them. They my family and my friends are a great soundboard and their support system that I need in my life, and with friends particularly. I enjoy spending time with them and the experiences whether it's traveling with them or just catching up over dinner like that keeps me motivated, keeps me young per se, because I have friends that my good good friends are not in CPG. So it's always nice to just get away from that bubble and talk to them and catch up and understand what other industries are doing, because it's exciting sometimes to just hear something outside of food and beverage.

Keith Cowing: 22:20

Do you have any structures in your life that help you hold true to that to make sure you get it in?

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 22:25

I have a group chat with my NBA core NBA friend that we text probably every day and then we plan to meet at least once a month and we stick to it. Prior COVID, we used to do a ski trip and a summer trip. We're picking back up on the summer trip. I am not a big skier so I always feel like I hold everybody back, so the winter trip is probably going to change.

Keith Cowing: 22:49

You can just bring the healthy recovery drinks,

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 22:51

yes, I can

Keith Cowing: 22:52

to the ski trip, What's your favorite flavor by the way?

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 22:55

I like the watermelon blood orange.

Keith Cowing: 22:57

Yeah, awesome. And what for other people listening that are looking to develop their personal leadership style, looking to bring that out. What leaders have inspired you?

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 23:08

The leaders that I really read up on and enjoy learning from are all professional coaches. I played soccer growing up. Most of my life. I played Division III soccer in undergrad. I played most of my life.

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 23:21

I love soccer, so I love reading books on coaches and how they motivate and get 100% from these high performing athletes. On the soccer side, it'll be Carlo Ancelotti's book called Quiet Leadership, phil Jackson's 11 Rings, which eventually will lead you to tribal leadership, a book called Tribal Leadership. Then there are other coaches, like Pep Guardiola at Manchester City, jurgen Klopp at Liverpool, diego Simeone, who coaches at Atletico Madrid. I lean more towards Carlo Ancelotti and I'm inspired by his book, which is his Choir Leadership, which is this nice balance between inspiring and motivating people while creating this safe zone while you're under his leadership. And then there's these other coaches that are just they're very. I don't know what it is about them.

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 24:05

Other coaches that are just they're very. I don't know what it is about them, but they're so energetic, they're so charismatic, they're so overwhelming to these players that they will go out onto a soccer field as if it was war and die for their coach. And at the end of the game that coach is there hugging their players, motivating and cheering them on. It's like every single player on that team will give 100% every game for their coach. Jurgen Klopp just left Liverpool and the ceremony that they had for his last game from the players and the fans was just unbelievable. You can watch it on YouTube. But I mean just having that presence and being able to foster that from high performing players and athletes who are like the top.

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 24:46

I don't know like 1% of 1% for an athlete, and then the fan behind them all falling in line and loving this leader or this coach is just it's great. I don't know how he does it, so yeah.

Keith Cowing: 24:57

For people listening. Are there any particular tactics that you would take from that that you think people can practice at home with their teams?

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 25:04

I think transparency is huge. There's this mindset of giving the bad news to an employee or to a player like you're not playing can be taken by the player as like you, don't like me, what did I do wrong? And Carlo Ancelotti actually says it's. It's in fact that, like I do, like you, and I'm telling you that you're not playing is my way of being honest with you rather than lying to you and not telling you and showing that roster literally 15 minutes before the game. I'm telling you ahead of time because I want you to know, so you can set expectations properly. And I think, as an employee or as a player, they respect that honesty, because there is a lot of vague and unclear messaging and sometimes employees who are following leaders can second guess themselves on what their motives of their leaders are. And once you get into that spiral it's scary.

Keith Cowing: 25:55

Especially today. I find there's a lot of organizations that have fear deep down in employees from just so much change they've been through over the past four or five years and you can't have transparency and information sharing if people are afraid Agreed. You have to get through that and building trust is hard and it really takes authentic leadership day in and day out, but there's no replacement for it. I agree. Where can people find you or Recoup online?

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 26:23

Yeah, so you can find us on our website, www. recoupwellness. com. You can find our product at Wegmans Amazon, our website. You can connect with me on LinkedIn if you want, and our Instagram handle is @recoupwellness.

Keith Cowing: 26:41

We will include those links in the show notes for people. They should definitely try it. I've been drinking Recoup. It's absolutely delicious. Siwat, this has been fantastic. You are inspirational and motivational. Absolutely love the story. Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast.

Siwat Siengsanaoh: 26:56

Thank you for having me.